Debunking the skeptics

A few reasoned answers for skeptics, at least the ones who are truly open-minded to evidence. I have learned that some are, and some are not. All but the first example (they are indented) are quotes and references from a so-called “debunking” web site. Too bad self-described “skeptics” like some of them do not scrutinize their own religiously held beliefs

Trinity for skeptics

Some atheists and some believers (Jehovah’s Witnesses, for example) like to substitute “God” for certain references to Jesus to make it look more ridiculous. Now, here is a place where experimental science can help us.

The “double-slit” experiment helps here. Wikipedia article here: There was a centuries old controversy among scientists as to whether light was a wave or a particle. The experiment shows that it is both.

What’s more, when you test it for wave behavior, it acts as a wave. When you observe testing for particle behavior, it behaves as a particle.

In a parallel understanding, God, when you interact with him as God the Father, that’s what he looks like and it is what he does. When you interact with him as God the Son incarnate, that’s what he looks like and it is what he does. When you interact with him as God the Holy Ghost, then that’s what he is.

Jesus said we are “the light of the world”, too, but all we humans can do is reflect the light, let the light of the love and truth of Jesus Christ shine out through us.

21 grams

Some guy wrote in 1907 that he found that there was a body weight loss of 21 grams when a person died. I don’t know of even one Christian that repeats this as if it were true, and I don’t believe it myself. A movie from years agone now was so titled, 21 Grams, didn’t even make much reference to it.

“I think you need to take a broader view of events in a historical context. Remember “end-times” have been popular for the last 2,000 years. There’s always someone who thinks they are living in the end times. The current times are not at all exceptional.”
At what time in those 2000 years did we have the power to destroy ourselves as is the case today ?

That’s one good point. Another is that the “skeptics” get information from sources that leave out anything that contradicts. It’s only when the Internet made available a lot of historical information that debunks some wrong ideas, like trying to say the end-times prophecies in the Bible are invalidated by the fact that supposedly so many “believers” imposed their own ideas onto them. They did nothing more than skeptics and unbelievers do today to the Bible, imposing their own interpretations on them and ignoring the ones that have proven themselves.

They also are ignorant of the fact that they were so many more debunkers of “any minute now” preaching than there were the “any minute now” false prophets.

From the beginning, right there in the epistles to the Thessalonians, Paul rebuked the faction that was saying it even then. He reminded them that the person we call the “Antichrist”, called “the Beast” in Revelation, would have to be revealed first.

There was also Isaac Newton who said by his calculations the Second Coming would not happen until many centuries hence from his generation. One source says his date was 2060, but in others I’ve seen he said it couldn’t happen before some year in the 24th century. If the interpretation of 2060 of his writing is accurate and the explanation and the “conspiracy” “club” dot-co web page, then here is where he got it wrong.

One of his mistakes with that might be that he thought he could divine it before time, because note that he must have been aware of the scripture in Daniel 12 that says the interpretation of the prophecies is “sealed” until the time of the end.

I say that because he also reasoned that for Daniel to be fulfilled, man had to invent a mode of transportation that exceeds 70 miles per hour.

Note that the same verse in Daniel 12 notes “knowledge shall be increase” as a sign of the unsealing of the book.

His transportation reference might also be to the scripture in Nahum.

Nahum 2:3 The shield of his mighty men is made red, the valiant men are in scarlet: the chariots shall be with flaming torches in the day of his preparation, and the fir trees shall be terribly shaken.
2:4 The chariots shall rage in the streets, they shall justle one against another in the broad ways: they shall seem like torches, they shall run like the lightnings.

For another one that some may have thought was just another verse about another strange plague, think a minute about what makes this following happen:

And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.–Zechariah 14:12

Apart from the Bible there is only marginal historical reference to Jesus existing, let alone being resurrected.
There is quite a bit of controversy, on that point.

There are great numbers of “historical reference” to Jesus having lived in the “secular” documents. Tacitus and Seutonius and Josephus were not the only documents. There are 23 others that refer to this band of people who testified with the most genuine affidavits of all, their lives, that Jesus was very real to them as a historical figure, including the resurrection.

The 500 witnesses Paul referred to that were eyewitnesses to the risen Christ were so sure of it that the “new” faith spread like wildfire. Take six to the sixth-times-removed power and you will find a generally minimum reasonable number of either first-person witnesses or people who knew more than one of the first-person witnesses. All these witnesses had to also corroborate each other’s story for it to be credible enough to bet your life on it.

Some of the witnesses are the enemies, like the Roman official writing to the Emperor for advice on what to do with these people that believed it so much. The Babylonian Talmud is witness to not only the miracles, but it’s a witness to the truth of the gospels, because the cover story is the same, that he cast out demons and healed the sick by Baalzebub, and that Jesus was the son of a prostitute who lay with carpenters.

Note that even Seutonius and of course the contemporaries of Nero had records that could have debunked any “myth”. Like Gamaliel said, the Messiah-pretenders of the day all came to naught. But if this one be of God, beware.

And it is circular reasoning to discount the multitude of writings that come to us from contemporaries of the Apostles and their own followers. Polycarp wrote of walking and talking with John on the isle of Patmos. Irraneus and many others there were. Tnhe circular reasoning is to say it doesn’t count because it’s recounting of facts disputes your version of the events. The problem with that non-logic is that the ones who are witnesses to these things are the ones who wrote it down. But you say that doesn’t count. In other words, any third-party corroboration does not count because they would be believers in the things that they wrote.

The one trait that seems to apply to most christians [sic] is hypocrisy, which was on full display while my grandmother was on her death-bed last week and that includes her own pastor. The only people that respected her desire for peace and quiet during her final days were the two or three atheists among us. Christians can go suck an egg.

You’re generalizing to me and millions of others because of your own bad examples? Most self-identified Christians today are bad examples. Why didn’t you use the example of warmongering Obama –who says he’s a Christian too– who kept going with Bush’s two unconstitutional wars, and then started or joined into three more, in Libya, Yemen and then Syria? How about the “Christian” Methodist who used her “faith” in campaigns for the Senate and her 2008 presidential campaign, and pushed the war on Libya?

When I was an atheist, I used to point to a couple of things about my pastor Dad. Boy was I off base I realized later on in years about him as a person, but so what?

Why do you avoid the fact that the worst condemnation of such hypocrites who cry “Lord Lord” will be cast into outer darkness, or the depths of hell, according to Biblical scripture? And that CHRISTIANS have been the biggest targets and victims of these vile hypocrites who within are like the rotting flesh and bones of the dead in the graves (a Jesus Christ himself described them).

And did you not think that maybe the grandmother wanted a refuge of peace and quiet without the atheist vibes interfering with her coronation? How about the hypocrisy of atheists who claim to be so noble by demanding that we help terminal patients suicide themselves? How about the hypocrite atheists who claim to be so indignant over theocracies while exusing the massive genocidal murders of the atheists and anti-C
hristians of the 20th century by trying to blame that on Christianity?

Once we all realize that “god” is a ludicrous fantasy that’s designed to provide a career opportunity for the family dunce, then the Human species will be much, much better off.

You want fantasy, consider this old atheist Greek myths and speculations written down Lucretius and Anaximander. There is nothing new under the sun, wrote the wisest man in history (outside of Jesus Christ). Darwin did not come up with something new, neither did his grandfather.

Or compare the modern version. Once upon a time the universe didn’t

Absent evidence, and proof….then anything that is “believed” to exist is, by default, not a fact. When any actual proof is provided, then ANY atheist on this planet would accept it, and understand it rationally. Until then?

And yet anti-creationists have not come up with conclusive proof, just a bunch of narratives and arguments from authority, posturing about having degrees from universities that teach the same things they believe in. Duh.

Here’s a fairy tale for adults:

I don’t vouch for 100 percent of the list of these 44 reasons, but it’s a pretty good list:

Is gov. really so different than religion? Just a different set of ‘primarily’ men telling us what we can do, and what we can say, and what we can eat.

Yes, look at this, the atheist economist Hans-Hermann Hoppe even wrote about it:*Version*=1&*entries*=0

Christians say that the Bible is true because it is the word of god – hence your characterization of there being only 2 ways is typical of the limits they can see – due to the circular reasoning.

Not true of the earliest Christians and their followers. Paul invoked lots of evidence to convince those who would listen, like the 500 eyewitnesses that talked, walked, and broke bread with the risen Christ. The Bible is full of scriptures like “Prove me now herewith”, and “Come let us reason together”, and “these signs shall follow”.

If one wishes to debunk the use of the Bible as a justification to prove “intelligent design” that is fair in my opinion.

Don’t need the Bible for that. A self-creating universe, spontaneous generation of life from non-life (debunked by Pasteur), these things violate both the second and third laws of thermodynamics and Newton’s third law of motion.

“I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say.” – The so-called “New Living Translation”, 1 Corinthians 1 cor 10:15.

Dumb translation. Here’s the genuine article:
I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say.- 1 Corinthians 10:15



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