The universe created itself and us in it? Now, that’s faith!

Okay, so the rebuttal is done to the defense of the circular presumption of Big Bang theories is rebutted. The defense was that no knowledge is “required” to reject supernaturalism.

Again, note that no knowledge whatsoever is “required” to reject the spontaneous self-made universe, either.

BLIND FAITH is necessary to believe the universe exploded into existence from a null, a nothing that was nowhere and in a literal sense was never, because there was no time until the beginning of time, “when” it happened.  That’s according to the millenia-old superstition that some Greeks described.  most materialistic cosmologists

THAT is supernaturalism. That is mysticism. That is faith in something so mysterious you avoid talking about what it might be because you’re afraid it is.. that it is… (well, you know)…

Questioner says, “certainly as gravitational effects increase, time can slow down, so we can plausibly posit that “before the big bang” might be a non-sequitor.” But this is precisely one of the elements of a Creationist astrophysicist’s theory for the Creation week. He’s only the one that predicted on the button the strength of the magnetic field of the outer gas giants before the probe arrived, while NASA’s billionaire team of smart guys were exponentially off.

So some physicists like Russ Humphreys do have “some pretty good ideas”, like don’t think the way you’re told, but think according to facts and science and what has always proven true.

Nobody needs a “special pleading” about God being outside time and space. It’s the answer to the stupid question anti-Creationists always ask, where did God come from. He’s the Creator. He’s the God of the Bible. The Bible matches measurable, provable repeatable science more than any “philosophical framework” and its believers cultivated the good science of recent centuries, the incubator for great inventions and advancements of today. And the culture of individualism and liberty.

And so having an answer, you still pose the same irrelevant questions about God’s origins, when you already have the answer. His “origin” is an oxymoron, he’s the Creator of the universe, and Einstein’s and Stephen Hawking’s theories should make clear that “time” itself should be considered part of this universe, and co-existent with it. Without four dimensions nothing exists here.

Scientists have no trouble imagining multiple universes in their materialistic fantasies, so this is willful ignorance, again. They even have no trouble, as with quantum physics, imagining something as existing in multiple states except inasmuch as it manifests through our observation of it. Fascinating how much we find parallels in the physical world to the spiritual truths.

Antony Flew, unfortunately for him, came to faith in a Creator God late in life. The obviously designed universe, more so the obvious intelligent design manifest in life, is just too much in one’s face. It takes faith to reject the design in biology.

Never mind “supernatural”, call it natural. I think God is natural, He is simply part of what surrounds us. Like Jesus said about “spiritual things”, it’s like the wind. You can’t see it but you can sure see its effects, if you allow perception to congeal.

More than any time in history, today, popularity of an idea has nothing to do with whether it’s true or not. Real, true Bible-believing faith, in spite of being faith in the truth, and being the best fit of descriptions of the world and its history, is not popular.

That’s the same as always. The most religious and sanctimonious in Jesus’ day obligated the Roman authorities to put him to death. Not long after he had cleansed their temple at the painful end of a long lashing for that “den of vipers and thieves”. The same he would do today to the satanic stealth thieves of the central banks’ worldwide cartel.

Michael Crichton made the same point also in his essay “Aliens Cause Global Warming’. neither consensus in science, nor the popularity of an idea, nor the argument from (secular) authority, none of these is sufficient.

One last note. Jesus Christ and his true followers do NOT “get to see” the godless burn in hell, rather, quite the opposite.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.–2 Peter 3:9

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.–John 3:17

Better to sing with the repentant former slave trader who anointed William Wilberforce on his mission to extinguish slavery from the British empire:


A very beautiful song, that.

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. -Isaiah 1:18


7 Responses to “The universe created itself and us in it? Now, that’s faith!”

  1. timsteppingout Says:

    Consider the 2 hypotheses:
    1. A magical supernatural god created himself a long time ago, and then created the universe
    2. Some unknown natural mechanism gave rise to the universe

    The thing that drew me away from deism (I’d left Christianity several years earlier) is that with #2, I don’t need to assume supernaturalism. There are all sorts of natural phenomena that people used to think *must* have been caused supernaturally – disease, droughts, etc.

    Yet, the more we understand the universe, the more we see that the answers are not magical or supernatural, but rather, natural and material.

    Saying “god did it” because I don’t have specific answers for what the mechanism is in #2 is not honest, and worse than that, it stops progress, as is evidenced with Newton’s lack of ability to solve the problem La Place had to solve for him – Newton was a superior mathematician, and many scholars suspect he had enough information to solve the problem; yet, he stopped, and called the answer god.

    BTW – most atheists have read the bible – you don’t need to use verses to support your argument – that commits begging the question fallacy

    • trutherator Says:

      I do understand that quoting Bible verses is no argument except only for Christians, most of whom purport to believe the Bible.

      I only quote them When they are relevant. For example, the verses from Jeremiah 2 show that the Darwinian molecules to animals to man is a very ancient pagan idea that has nothing to do with “science”.

      That said, like I said, there are thousands of Creationist scientists who started out as Darwinians but followed the science back to faith. Me, my path back to the Bible was by following the science to history and facts. True science, not the fantasy of materialists.

  2. Wally Fry Says:


    “A magical supernatural god created himself a long time ago, and then created the universe” about this hypothesis:

    God didn’t create Himself, he simply is. Remember I AM? God didn’t create Himself, He is pre existent from eternity past.

    “BTW – most atheists have read the bible – you don’t need to use verses to support your argument – that commits begging the question fallacy”

    That’s absurd. Asking a Christian to support their position without using The Bible is like asking a physicist to explain matter without using a Physics Book. And your assertion that most atheists have read the Bible has been proven by statements made over and over to be simply false. What most have done is read ABOUT the Bible, or heard the knee jerk statements made by opponents of the Bible. Few have actually read it.

    • trutherator Says:

      Yes, God created time itself. He has no beginning. As even the agnostic-inclined Albert Einstein and the atheistic Stephen Hawking have pointed out, time only has meaning within our universe’s timeline.

      The gods of the clueless are like unto the clueless. They have no idea what their Creator is like, though they may so claim. The difference is that the human clueless are “willfully” so.

  3. mclasper Says:

    I must add to Wally Fry’s comment that atheists have actually read the bible, more than Christians do actually. We also commonly read the Koran, and some atheists I know have a degree in bible studies. We know what we’re talking about.
    And we use evidence in the real world, not 2000 year old books, to support our arguments.

  4. trutherator Says:

    I’ll add to mclasper’s comment:

    Satan knows the Bible inside and out, and the Pharisees knew their Bible better than anybody. They bragged about it with more self-righteousness, or as much as, the atheists that brag about being rational, even in the insanity of the watch without watchmaker and the self-creating universe.

    Like the hypocrite head of divinity studies at Iowa University who led the blacklisting charge against Guillermo Gomez. Free speech for me but not for thee.

    After all, the “self-creating” universe does not “require” supernaturalism, and what’s more, that way you relieve yourself of giving account in the end for failing to “Love thy neighbor as thyself”. You get to worship yourself like Ayn Rand said.

    For God is love.

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