Coup plotter Mel Zelaya deposed himself

The CRS report is well-researched and a good reference, because it includes timelines and dates and constitutional references in turn. If they try to smear the sources, that’s called an “ad hominem” attack, meaning an attack on the person instead of the argument. No one has answered the specifics, except a few that have actually lied about the facts.

Another good reference source is the .pdf file with timelines and dates from the Honduran living in Brazil. And Miguel Estrada’s article in the Los Angeles Times, an American born in Honduras, a constitutional lawyer here.

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The objections fed to everyone outside of Honduras is an artifact of paid disinformation agents, and good ones, and the fact that the first thing the international news agency cartel said on June 28 was “coup”. Almost nobody even thought about Honduras before then, and the news agencies have done great negligence in reporting only one side of the issue.

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There are three separate and independent issues regarding the actions of the Armed Forces, but you cannot, CANNOT, talk about them without talking about the context and events leading to them.

The three issues are: (1).the removal and termination of the presidency of Zelaya, i.e. when was his separation from the presidency occur; (2).the issue of his expatriation and the constitutionality or no thereof; and (3).the issue of criminal charges against him, and the judicial process pertinent thereto.

First it was an arrest, from merriam-webster.com, the definition of “arrest”:

arrest: 1 a : to bring to a stop b : check, slow c : to make inactive
2 : seize, capture; specifically : to take or keep in custody by authority of law
3 : to catch suddenly and engagingly

It was an arrest under the second definition, an arrest warrant ordered by the Supreme Court, because it was a seizure based on the authority of law. That is the issue, whether you disagree with it post-facto or not.

You can say the moon is made of green cheese too, if you want to, go ahead. It wouldn’t be the first time you’re wrong. 😉

They also caught him suddenly and engagingly in mid-coup. 😉

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***__Consider that it is the Honduran people defending their constitutional democracy who have insisted that their constitution be the authority. Nobody even bothered, not once has the OAS or the UN or anybody else has listed any specific Honduran constitutional authority, even while claiming falsely that his separation from the presidency was unlawful. Not once!

Now since finally the defenders of Honduras have insisted on it, the paid political disinformation operatives have picked clauses out of context and misused them.

>> http://www.honduras.com/honduras-con…n-english.html

ARTICLE 272.- The Armed Forces of Honduras, are a National Institution of a permanent basis, essentially professional, apolitical, obedient and non-deliberative. They are set to defend the territorial integrity and sovereignty of the Republic, maintain peace, public order and the rule of the Constitution, the principles of free suffrage and alternation in the exercise of the Presidency of the Republic.
Cooperate with the National Police in the maintenance of public order .
In order to ensure the free exercise of the vote, the custody, transport and surveillance of electoral materials and other aspects of the security of the process, the President of the Republic, put the Armed Forces available to the National Elections Tribunal, from a month before the elections, until the final declaration of the same.

Note that even with this article isolated we have: They are set to defend the territorial integrity and sovereignty of the Republic, maintain peace, public order and the rule of the Constitution, the principles of free suffrage and alternation in the exercise of the Presidency of the Republic

Whoever objects to the constitutional succession implemented on June 28, 2009 in Honduras based on this clause makes the case rather for the defenders of Honduran democracy against the coup plotter Zel.

The Armed Forces are constitutionally REQUIRED to “..maintain peace, public order and the rule of the Constitution, the principles of free suffrage and alternation in the exercise of the Presidency of the Republic..”.

Zel had already broken the peace more than once, threatened the Congress with dissolution (and had plans to execute on Sunday evening), and that Sunday he had already made clear with the language change on the 27th he was breaking the “alternation in the exercise of the Presidency of the Republic”. His own supporters do not deny this, they are loudly demand it!

And by the way, the Constitution also mandates that the President is required to defend the territorial integrity of Honduras, which he also broke by giving away a disputed island to Nicaragua.

And for the liars who will tell you otherwise, Zel is on camera and available on Youtube saying re-election was his agenda. Re-election means not just his own, it’s anybody’s.

The military never was engaged politically in this whole scene at any time. They merely obeyed legal orders emanating from legal authorities. The Supreme Court ordered his arrest based on a list of constitutional and criminal violations. This was in answer to a petition from the Attorney General of Zel’s own government!

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The military NEVER eganged in anything political at all. The push to talk about the military is a disinformation tactic, meant to distract from the undisputable fact that the CIVILIAN authorities of Honduras removed him from being president, and that it was the SUPREME COURT that ordered his arrest.

Anybody who says it was the military disrupting anything is either ignorant of the facts or is lying.

It was not the military that disrupted constitutional order and continuity, it was precisely Mel Zelaya.

#1.Zel really began his overthrow of the Constitution in November, 2008 when he refused to send a budget to Congress for 2009 as required by law. In 2009, he collected taxes and spent money on personal whim.

#2..As to constitutional order, in the attempt to get cooperation for his fraud, he refused funds to the Tribunal Suprema Electoral (Supreme Electoral Tribunal), because they refused his illegal and unconstitutional order to carry out his illegal referendum, and his attempt to legitimize his coup d’etat.

The TSE is constitutionally totally independent of the other branches of government.

#3..In March 2009 he issued an executive order to all the departments of his government to help him carry out his illegal referendum, which at that time he ordered should be placed together with the other three ballot boxes in November. Whence the “cuarta urna”. The referendum was to ask whether there should be a “constituyente”, or “constitutional assembly”, to write a completely new constitution. More on that in a minute.

Precisely because of the biggest problem for Honduras historically of ELECTED presidents refusing to give up power and not just military presidents, they made no provision for any such “constituyente”.

It’s easier to amend than in the USA, but there are only seven or eight articles that are designated “petreos”, “unchangeable (inalterable)”. Not only can they not be changed, no amendments are allowed that modify their effect.

One effect of them is, the territorial integrity of Honduras (Zel broke that one).
Two, the guarantee of a “republican form of government”. (Zel was already ruling by decree)
Three, the ban that says anyone who has been president cannot be president again. (OR EVEN PROMOTE reelection for anyone). Zel is caught on video promoting the re-election of presidents.

–Like Micheletti said in one interview, if anyone is a president in Honduras even for ONE DAY, he can never be president again.

#4.In May he changed the order issued earlier, and moved the date up to June 28, 2009, ordering his government to cooperate. Since the only constitutional body permitted to run any such referendum had refused because it was a constitutional violation, and the Judicial had declared it illegal, he said he was using the Statistics Department to run it.

Note that this meant he and his hand-picked accessories to crime would -a-organize this referendum, -b-staff the polling places with their own personnel, -c-count the results, and -d-announce the results.

During May and June there were a number of legal moves initiated by the Attorney General, and consequent court orders against carrying out this illegal and unconstitutional act, and declaring that cooperating with this abuse of power was a crime. The dates are easy to find.

#5.The violent mob: Leading up to June 25, 2009, because Zel was not able to find a print shop in Honduras willing to commit the crime of aiding his coup, the “ballots” for his illegal referendum arrived at the Toncontin Airport and were immediately confiscated by judicial order and taken to storage. On that Wednesday, Zel got about a thousand people together and marched to the base and broke in for them.

#6..In view of repeated and several constitutional violations and crimes, the Supreme Court on June 25, ordered his arrest, to be carried out at a time deemed most appropriate to avoid danger to life and limb.

The Constitution most definitely DOES invest the authority to execute arrest warrants because one of the duties in the self same Article 272, quoted by this misguided writer, is precisely to assist the police in maintaing public order:

..Cooperate with the National Police in the maintenance of public order…

You see, on June 26, that Saturday, Mel changed the title of the referendum to eliminate the November date, so he could get fradulent cover to immediately dissolve the Congress and call for the “constituyente”, counting also on the unfettered violence of his foloowers and the millions in lempiras stolen from the national treasury and from the Central Bank.

It is obvious now especially that this was his plan all along.

In view of the fact that there were already scores and hundreds of Nicaraguans and Venezuelans in the country, and he was getting direction from Caracas, the situation encountered upon execution of the arrest warrant was and unknown and likely beyond the capability of the police, therefore the services of the military forces were required, as not only permitted by Article 272 but most clearly and unambiguously mandated by it.

Trying to pretend it says something other than what it says and seeing if it sticks is no argument. Orwellian Newspeak dictionaries are not allowed here.

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Given the history of Honduras, anyone should be ashamed of supporting the coup plotter Mel Zelaya, who was already running the government by decree. Ashamed of repeating a lie about the Honduran Armed Forces who refused to participate in Zelaya’s coup d’etat against democratic constitutional order.

Even though he had tried to buy them off by doubling their budget.

In fact, with Mel’s attack on the Honduran Constitution and its republic and the orderly succession of presidential power, and his invitation to foreign enemies of Honduras to aid in this coup d’etat, there is another Article in the Honduran Constitution that authorizes anybody and everybody to rise up against this disorder and restore constitutional order.

It’s one that in the backwards upside down world of socialist dictators, Mel Zelaya is invoking to provoke his mob to violence as we speak. It’s one of the “articulos petreos”, the unchangeable and inalterable articles:

ARTICULO 3.- Nadie debe obediencia a un gobierno usurpador ni a quienes asuman funciones o empleos públicos por la fuerza de las armas o usando medios o procedimientos que quebranten o desconozcan lo que esta Constitución y las leyes establecen. Los actos verificados por tales autoridades son nulos. el pueblo tiene derecho a recurrir a la insurrección en defensa del orden constitucional.

It says nobody owes obeisance to a usurper government, and Mel had converted himself from elected president into usurper.

Since he his coup was already underway and his fraud occuring that Sunday, EVERYBODY in Honduras was authorized constitutionally to rise up against him.

The reason for this was for the case in which all other authorized means failed against a dictator.

So in Honduras, for example, even if a Chavista were successful in stacking the deck all around like Chavez has in Venezuela, and calling a constituyente, that new socialist dictator-friendly constitution would be null and void.

I’ll put something together in the next few days with the specific constitution articles together another day..

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EXILE:

If you were the renegade non-president, deposed automatically by Article 239, and arrested, and given the choice of going to prison or going to exile after signing your resignation, which one would you choose?

It has been observed by alert eyes that the first time Zel was asked whether he had signed the resignation, he avoided answering. The second time later he was asked, he gave a nebulous ambiguous answer. Not until his advisers had got ahold of him did he say straight out that he had not.

That said, the all the civilian authorities have rushed to say this was illegal, so there is no dispute there. (Although I think there are constitutional defenses for it, another subject).

So help them rectify the only error in this picture and apprehend this criminal and return him to the proper authorities for his criminal trial and day in court.

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Anybody who says this:

>>…Because the history of Honduras is unfortunately plagued with military intervention and power grabs at the point of a gun….It’s the Honduran way, and it happened all over again.

… shows a total abysmal even intentional

    ignorance about the situation in Honduras.

    The military did not hold power for ONE SECOND at any time in Honduras. The country was without a president or vice president fromt the time of Mel’s overthrow of the Constitutional order until the Congress voted to recognize the constitutional succession and Micheletti as president on June 28, 2009.

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    –Alan

2 Responses to “Coup plotter Mel Zelaya deposed himself”

  1. Touchstone Says:

    That’s an interesting way to start off your article. You are concerned about _ad hominem_ attacks and “smearing sources” with respect to the CRS report, then a few sentences later you smear all those with objections to the coup as “paid disinformation agents”. Doesn’t get any more _ad hominem_ than that! Can you see the hypocrisy in your opening. That signals weakness in your argument, to begin with a claim that opponents are simply paid liars.

    Some critique of what you wrote here:

    1. Arrest is not a process done according to casual usage, as if the law followed a *dictionary* rather than a legal definition of the term. The object of arrest is to put the subject in the custody of authorities as part of due process toward being charged and tried, if prosecutors decide such is warranted.

    Here’s a link to the US Embassy in Tegucigalpa on the subject of Honduran law and arrest:

    http://honduras.usembassy.gov/acs_arresthond.html

    Here’s an that show’s where your Merriam Webster source is a misdirection in light of Honduran law:

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    “According to Honduran Criminal Procedure Code, a person arrested in Honduras maybe held for up to 24 hours while the authorities investigate or obtaining sufficient evidence to support the accusation made against that person. The detainee may be held at premises of the criminal investigative police (Dirección Nacional de Investigación (DGIC)) or the local police (Policía Preventiva).

    Within 24 hours of the initial detention several things must take place:

    * The police must decide to either release the detainee or turn the case over to the Prosecutor’s Office (Ministerio Público).
    * The Prosecutor’s Office (Ministerio Público) must review the evidence and decide whether or not to prosecute the case.
    * The detainee must be brought before the court or be released.
    * If the defendant does not have enough money to hire a private attorney, the Court will appoint a Public Defender (Defensor Público).”

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    As you can see from reading this, none of this was followed. The police were not even involved, according to the reports I’ve read. In terms of Honduran law (if you think the US Embassy is mistaken on the particulars of Honduran law, I’m interested in your citations to sources that discredit their claims), there was no arrest. The organization charged with those duties didn’t perform it, and none of the due process requirements listed above were met.

    I’d be interested to hear your understanding of the legal provisions for due process, perhaps with some more depth than MerriamWebster might provide.

    Out of time, and do not know what length limits apply here. I’ve also had many comments like the above on other blogs just get deleted by the blog owner, so I’ll offer this small bit to see what the policy is at this blog.

    Thank you for reading.

    -TS

  2. trutherator Says:

    ONE:

    Objecting to what I DON’T say is no argument Touchstone.

    You claimed:’…”a few sentences later you smear all those with objections to the coup as “paid disinformation agents”…’

    That”s not what I said, but first, obviously there are many poor sould who are simply victims of the liars and disinformation agents, and others who were confused by the first lie reported on June 28 that the events were a “coup” which they were not. Honduras STOPPED Zelaya’s coup d’etat.

    Here is what I actually said: “..The objections fed to everyone outside of Honduras is an artifact of paid disinformation agents, and good ones, and the fact that the first thing the international news agency cartel said on June 28 was “coup”. Almost nobody even thought about Honduras before then, and the news agencies have done great negligence in reporting only one side of the issue….”

    If you think Chavez and Zelaya don’t have professional disinformation agents you’re too just naive, gullible, or willingly ignorant. If you cincerely think they’re telling the truth, then you’re sincerely deceived.

    Honduras doesn’t need such liars and disinformation agents, but it’s an outrage they have had to pay some people in the US just to tell the truth!

    All they want is for people to research the truth and see for themselves and listen to the Honduran people themselves. Of which my wife is one.

    Just #1.learn about Zelaya’s auto-coup, and #2, really know and apply the constitution, and #3, use your logic circuits.

    Very funny that there are now so many experts on the Honduran constitution that know more than…
    …(1)..The Honduran Supreme Court (15-0),
    …(2)…The Honduran Congress (by 124-4),
    …(3)..the Superior Electoral Tribunal (all its “board” members at , a body independent of all three branches of government,
    …(4)…The “Fiscal General” (Attorney General) of Zelaya’s own government,
    …(5)…the Honduran Human Rights Obundsman, who said all civil rights were respected at all times,
    …(6)… ALL of the four major political parties,
    …(7)…85 percent of Hondurans.

    …Who all agree that Zelaya was constitutionally removed –with most of these agreeing that the overt coup d’etat actions on June 25 (or June 27) of Zelaya automatically removed him as president.

    Cornerstone provided an irrelevant link to “the US Embassy in Tegucigalpa on the subject of Honduran law and arrest.”.

    That’s what I mean about actually learning the truth and listening to the people who are actually there, before making pronouncements.

    One issue is the removal of the president from the presidency, whether by legal prescription and universal recognition by procedure in constitutional bodies –as happened in this case– or through self-removal by automatic activation of Article 239– as also happened in this case—.

    A second issue concerns the criminal charges against ordinary citizen Mel Zelaya.

    Third issue, after his obviously constitutional arrest, the “exile”.

    To help understand this, in the United States if a president commits a crime, he can be (1) impeached and (2) charged with the same crime. (1) and (2) can occur in either order.

    His removal was totally constitutional. His crimes and treason against the anti-dictator constitutional articles are obvious to all in Honduras, as listed.

    –IF– due process were truly the issue that concerned so many people, they should insist that Mel Zelaya be apprehended and turned over to the proper authorities to get his due process.

    He has lied that he is willing, and exposes the lie by insisting on getting his dictatorial power back.

    The exile causes confusion to most people. Honduras agrees that this is easily corrected by returning Mel Zelaya to prison in Honduras to await his trial and sentencing.

    In Honduras, the protection of constitutional authority is a constitutional duty of the Armed Forces, and public order.

    Because of the plans and people that Zelaya had in place already the night of Saturday, June 27, 2009, to send mobs after Congress to make sure they could not meet to recognize his removal from the office of president, and the constitutional duties of public order and constitutional protection, Zelaya was ALLOWED to go to exile.

    The proof is the way he incited riot from his own safe haven of the Brazilian Embassy, a blatant interference in the internal affairs of Honduras itself. It seems he insisted on proving to the world that he was the very devil Honduras told them about.

    If YOU were offered a choice between —ONE– prison and court and, if found guilty, prison probably for life for your publicly committed crimes, or –TWO– voluuntary exile, which would you choose?

    Of course he says he was forcibly exiled. Right. He really wanted to go to prison. Riiiigggghhhht.

    From one who watched intensely the coverage in Honduras:

    The first time he was asked by reporters in Costa Rica whether he was forced into exile he hem-hawed around the question.

    The second time, he shifted his eyes back and forth a little then sort of said “yes”.

    The third time, [his handlers had gotten hold of him and] he just said “yes”. (Brackets are trutherator’s)

    —trutherator

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